NS Cliches: Rebooted

by **Aikoland** » Fri Feb 05, 2021 7:37 am

See this nation canonically only has like 30,000 people in its military because, you know, not gonna exactly have a huge military with less than 6 million people in my population. I admit that maybe it's a bit small (I think Denmark IRL has like 40,000 active troops and they have around the same population that this nation officially has) but I also don't do war RPs at all, so who really cares?

by **Qhevak** » Fri Feb 05, 2021 8:33 am

Feyrisshire wrote:Another cliche I've noticed among MT nations, especially among the neoliberal nations of Grail, SETA, LITA and others is the stubborn compliance to First World NATO and US military models without effort or explanation as to why their nations suddenly had amassed an industrial base or economy that allows them to, or why do their nations even need it in the first place.
It's always "ooh I have Gerald Ford supercarrier!" "ooh I have F-35 Lightning stealth aircraft! "ooh I have nuclear SSBN!" "ooh I have stealth destroyer!" "ooh I have powerful exoskeleton suit!" without deconstruction as to how their nation has suddenly amassed weapons that only Russia, China and US has IRL even if "they are trying to play as a realistic MT nation". Bonus points if they're playing as a First World liberal democracy that's not really going to be threatened by anyone and suddenly feels the need to amass a powerful military and nuclear program.

Tbf I don't find it unreasonable for lots of NS nation to have military resources similar to IRL superpowers, at least as long as you can roleplay it properly (and most GRAIL/SETA/LITA types don't). One of the core premises of NSMT is that it takes place on a weird fractal world with ridiculous amounts of land, which would enable many more nations on the scale of the contemporary US. The sorts of nations that tend to be widely accepted as global superpowers in MT Prime (e.g. Macabees, Lyras, MT Allanea) all have economies that put the entirety of modern Earth to shame - something US or China sized would be a rather small player relatively speaking. The much greater number of hot peer conflicts that occur in MT prime would also presumably lead to much greater military spending on average.

I consider these as low-key MT versions of having "interstellar space ships that spew lasers" considering that I've seen very few MT nations that diverge from these cliche models such as one based on asymmetric warfare, guerilla warfare and other unconventional forms of modern warfare. Realistically, if your nation focuses too much on the military and if you're not US, China or Russia, you'd inadvertently sacrifice other areas or you lack resources so you are forced to play asymmetrically - an interesting angle I simply don't see among NS nations. There are very few nations here that go the narrowly traveled path when in fact MT military need not be uncreative - such as Viet Cong's guerilla tactics, Albania's bunkers, Iran's Mad Max navy tactics, midget submarines, human torpedoes, Somalian pirates, Afghan Mujahideens and DPRK's general shenanigans -that MT military building in NS as it for now seems to be overall monotonous and dull.

On that note, the lack of proxy wars in MT is really disappointing. Trying to covertly equip guerillas, supporting with strategic SF ops/drone strikes/intelligence, dealing with conflicts of interest and idelogical difficulties etc could be much more interesting than the standard "we send 10,000 tanks to put down ur rebellion" but it's basically nonexistent in MT.

Dayganistan wrote:As a fully MT nation I would honestly say MT and PMT are the worst tech levels for wank on NS right now. But II is completely overrun with horrendous one liner war RPs as a whole anyway, the fact that it's all MT and PMT nations who read Tom Clancy for the first time a week ago or play too many arcade shooters doing it is merely a coincidence.

Join dates for nations in those threads are almost all post-COVID lockdown. It's probably mostly due to middle schoolers getting more internet time because of COVID.

by **Dayganistan** » Fri Feb 05, 2021 9:13 am

Feyrisshire wrote:Another cliche I've noticed among MT nations, especially among the neoliberal nations of Grail, SETA, LITA and others is the stubborn compliance to First World NATO and US military models without effort or explanation as to why their nations suddenly had amassed an industrial base or economy that allows them to, or why do their nations even need it in the first place.
It's always "ooh I have Gerald Ford supercarrier!" "ooh I have F-35 Lightning stealth aircraft! "ooh I have nuclear SSBN!" "ooh I have stealth destroyer!" "ooh I have powerful exoskeleton suit!" without deconstruction as to how their nation has suddenly amassed weapons that only Russia, China and US has IRL even if "they are trying to play as a realistic MT nation". Bonus points if they're playing as a First World liberal democracy that's not really going to be threatened by anyone and suddenly feels the need to amass a powerful military and nuclear program.

I consider these as low-key MT versions of having "interstellar space ships that spew lasers" considering that I've seen very few MT nations that diverge from these cliche models such as one based on asymmetric warfare, guerilla warfare and other unconventional forms of modern warfare. Realistically, if your nation focuses too much on the military and if you're not US, China or Russia, you'd inadvertently sacrifice other areas or you lack resources so you are forced to play asymmetrically - an interesting angle I simply don't see among NS nations. There are very few nations here that go the narrowly traveled path when in fact MT military need not be uncreative - such as Viet Cong's guerilla tactics, Albania's bunkers, Iran's Mad Max navy tactics, midget submarines, human torpedoes, Somalian pirates, Afghan Mujahideens and DPRK's general shenanigans -that MT military building in NS as it for now seems to be overall monotonous and dull.

The generic NS nation is 100% an MT liberal democracy with a huge military full of advanced hardware that hasn't fully entered service yet IRL. I'm just here trying to play a regional middle eastern power along the lines of something like Turkey IRL. But having a military with 400 thousand active personnel is just asking to get powerwanked by a huge military no matter how much I try to wage an asymmetric conflict or wreak havoc behind the lines with my fairly substantial special operations forces, or no matter how modern my equipment is since I'm basically using what was top of the line for NATO in the early 2010s which is far from outdated or useless today. Probably why I haven't done a war RP ever with this nation.

by **Valentine Z** » Fri Feb 05, 2021 9:17 am

For a quick tip like I said: Try to have a few rules with your RPs. Open wars/international incidents are usually asking for trouble unfortunately, and you will need a list of rules and engagement for nations that participated, e.g. no WMDs or nukes, or absurd numbers.

It sounds easier said than done and I do feel bad that it sounds like I am a fun police, but man, you gotta have those if you don't want a hole in your leader's house over a dinner party.

by **Kiu Ghesik** » Fri Feb 05, 2021 9:17 am

Valentine Z wrote:It sounds easier said than done and I do feel bad that it sounds like I am a fun police, but man, you gotta have those if you don't want a hole in your leader's house over a dinner party.

I feel like there's a story here I missed.

by **Valentine Z** » Fri Feb 05, 2021 9:18 am

Kiu Ghesik wrote:
Valentine Z wrote:It sounds easier said than done and I do feel bad that it sounds like I am a fun police, but man, you gotta have those if you don't want a hole in your leader's house over a dinner party.

I feel like there's a story here I missed.

Ohh, Valentine Z Dinner, first iteration. No rules on weapons and magics, you can see where it went!

viewtopic.php?p=32793676#p32793676

by **Zeloria** » Fri Feb 05, 2021 9:41 am

Valentine Z wrote:Ohh, Valentine Z Dinner, first iteration. No rules on weapons and magics, you can see where it went!

viewtopic.php?p=32793676#p32793676

I made a RP that didn't really had rules, and didn't really went bad. Granted, not many people where there.

by **Valentine Z** » Fri Feb 05, 2021 9:42 am

Zeloria wrote:
Valentine Z wrote:Ohh, Valentine Z Dinner, first iteration. No rules on weapons and magics, you can see where it went!

viewtopic.php?p=32793676#p32793676

I made a RP that didn't really had rules, and didn't really went bad. Granted, not many people where there.

While not a cliche, a trope/trend that I see is to have "10+ posts per day" when you first put up the OP..... then eventually it got so dead that not even I / OP can revive it. I had to lock them and put them out of their misery lest someone gravedigged it. :blush:

This unfortunately is inevitable and yeah, I do play a part in being inactive too, but understandably, a lot of us just have things outside of the RP.

~~And yes, Honor System will screw you over, so... house IC/OOC rules will be good.~~

by **Zeloria** » Fri Feb 05, 2021 10:50 am

Valentine Z wrote:~~And yes, Honor System will screw you over, so... house IC/OOC rules will be good.~~

But what if I want to have chaos in my RP's.

12 March 2022

Zeloria wrote:
Valentine Z wrote:~~And yes, Honor System will screw you over, so... house IC/OOC rules will be good.~~

But what if I want to have chaos in my RP's.

Well, KG, SoMac, Main Nation Ministry, Langenia, FRAATC/their puppets, and I can help with that...as well as cursed things.

by **Hathian Prime** » Fri Feb 05, 2021 12:27 pm

Something I have personally seen many times over the years is someone nearly kill(or, on rare occasions, successfully kill)an active thread by typing out a 5-6 paragraph response. Generally done in “YN/YL opinion on AN’s/AL’s thing”. Nobody tends to respond to those because any response you do type may seem underwhelming compared to AN’s response. I’m not complaining about a paragraph or two written about a nation. Those are fine and should be the average response. But when someone types out a whole essay on a thread, I feel as if most users do not want to respond to it or even read it. It’s kind of overkill

by **Hamatu** » Fri Feb 05, 2021 12:38 pm

Hathian Prime wrote:Something I have personally seen many times over the years is someone nearly kill(or, on rare occasions, successfully kill)an active thread by typing out a 5-6 paragraph response. Generally done in “YN/YL opinion on AN’s/AL’s thing”. Nobody tends to respond to those because any response you do type may seem underwhelming compared to AN’s response. I’m not complaining about a paragraph or two written about a nation. Those are fine and should be the average response. But when someone types out a whole essay on a thread, I feel as if most users do not want to respond to it or even read it. It’s kind of overkill

Honestly, though, sometimes reading and writing those sorta replies can be fun, especially when it gets into character, and if its one of those threads where you're rating something or other, those can be the most helpful responses. And I definitely prefer those sorta responses to the typical "She is a mermaid, so She is cool" and "It is a theocracy, so it is bad" ones.

by **Connomia** » Fri Feb 05, 2021 2:22 pm

I don't go on the other forums so I only have experience with the Region I'm RPing in. What I do see is nations that seem to think that they can't RP if they don't cause tension every once in a while. Like they can't continue making RPs unless they start a conflict or a dispute every once in a while.

by **Qhevak** » Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:03 pm

Connomia wrote:I don't go on the other forums so I only have experience with the Region I'm RPing in. What I do see is nations that seem to think that they can't RP if they don't cause tension every once in a while. Like they can't continue making RPs unless they start a conflict or a dispute every once in a while.

Virgin International Incidents war RP enthusiast vs Chad NationStates party RP appreciator

by **Zeloria** » Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:09 pm

Qhevak wrote:Virgin International Incidents war RP enthusiast vs Chad NationStates party RP appreciator

Thad having a party RP turn into an international incident war RP

12 March 2022

NSG Cliche #11129235848: Threads that literally question the existence of America. Nobody argues over whether Alfred should have consolidated the English kingdoms, or whether Qin Shihuangdi should have established his own dynasty. What I'm saying is that singling out the US has gotten old...no offense to anyone here.

by **Qhevak** » Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:18 pm

Zeloria wrote:
Qhevak wrote:Virgin International Incidents war RP enthusiast vs Chad NationStates party RP appreciator

Thad having a party RP turn into an international incident war RP

Actually true, this was easily one of the best written war RPs in recent years.

by **Aikoland** » Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:27 pm

Western Fardelshufflestein wrote:NSG Cliche #11129235848: Threads that literally question the existence of America. Nobody argues over whether Alfred should have consolidated the English kingdoms, or whether Qin Shihuangdi should have established his own dynasty. What I'm saying is that singling out the US has gotten old...no offense to anyone here.

We need to go father than that:
NSG, was it a good idea for that first fish to take steps onto land several billion years ago?

12 March 2022

Aikoland wrote:
Western Fardelshufflestein wrote:NSG Cliche #11129235848: Threads that literally question the existence of America. Nobody argues over whether Alfred should have consolidated the English kingdoms, or whether Qin Shihuangdi should have established his own dynasty. What I'm saying is that singling out the US has gotten old...no offense to anyone here.

We need to go father than that:
NSG, was it a good idea for that first fish to take steps onto land several billion years ago?

nO, bEcAuSE aMeRiCa eXiStS.

by **Zeloria** » Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:29 pm

Aikoland wrote:We need to go father than that:
NSG, was it a good idea for that first fish to take steps onto land several billion years ago?

The big bang and its consequences have been a disaster for all of existence.

12 March 2022

Zeloria wrote:
Aikoland wrote:We need to go father than that:
NSG, was it a good idea for that first fish to take steps onto land several billion years ago?

The big bang and its consequences have been a disaster for all of existence.

bEcAUsE oF iT, wE HaVe cApITaLiSm!!!1!!1!1!1

by **Aikoland** » Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:39 pm

Western Fardelshufflestein wrote:
Zeloria wrote:
The big bang and its consequences have been a disaster for all of existence.

bEcAUsE oF iT, wE HaVe cApITaLiSm!!!1!!1!1!1

by **Sanghyeok** » Fri Feb 05, 2021 4:48 pm

Western Fardelshufflestein wrote:NSG Cliche #11129235848: Threads that literally question the existence of America. Nobody argues over whether Alfred should have consolidated the English kingdoms, or whether Qin Shihuangdi should have established his own dynasty. What I'm saying is that singling out the US has gotten old...no offense to anyone here.

I mean, US abolishment is hardly the only silly idea on NSG- people have suggested Balkanisation of China, the US, Israel, and Russia, the abolishment of Saudi Arabia, ruling by cats, and ~~even Brexit.~~ US posters tend to be more prevalent, so there are more posts about the many societal problems and failings in the US.

by **Valentine Z** » Fri Feb 05, 2021 4:49 pm

Sanghyeok wrote:
Western Fardelshufflestein wrote:NSG Cliche #11129235848: Threads that literally question the existence of America. Nobody argues over whether Alfred should have consolidated the English kingdoms, or whether Qin Shihuangdi should have established his own dynasty. What I'm saying is that singling out the US has gotten old...no offense to anyone here.

I mean, US abolishment is hardly the only silly idea on NSG- people have suggested Balkanisation of China, the US, Israel, and Russia, the abolishment of Saudi Arabia, ruling by cats, and~~even Brexit.~~ US posters tend to be more prevalent, so there are more posts about the many societal problems and failings in the US.

I have heard and seen so many of this:

- Should the US be abolished?
- Should the US be split into many countries?
- Is USA bad?

I personally want Florida to be its own country. Nothing will go wrong, trust me.

(Sorry for this slight deviation from the usual cliches!)

by **Sanghyeok** » Fri Feb 05, 2021 4:52 pm

Valentine Z wrote:
Sanghyeok wrote:
I mean, US abolishment is hardly the only silly idea on NSG- people have suggested Balkanisation of China, the US, Israel, and Russia, the abolishment of Saudi Arabia, ruling by cats, and~~even Brexit.~~ US posters tend to be more prevalent, so there are more posts about the many societal problems and failings in the US.

I have heard and seen so many of this:

- Should the US be abolished?
- Should the US be split into many countries?
- Is USA bad?

I personally want Florida to be its own country. Nothing will go wrong, trust me.

(Sorry for this slight deviation from the usual cliches!)

People don't seem to understand how bad Balkanisation is, even in times of "peace".

NS Cliches: Rebooted

Who is online